Filed under: Etiquette Across the Pond, Table etiquette | Tags: america, britain, canada, drink, Etiquette Across the Pond, glasses, pond, stemware, uk, usa
It’s a new month, so here’s a new conversation between my colleague Jay Remer and me; this time we discuss stemware.
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J: So, today we’ll discuss various aspects of stemware (glasses) on a formal dinner table. I suppose we should begin with the simple directive that all glasses are arranged to the right of the dinner plate.
W: Yes, above the knives and spoons.
J: The glasses are arranged in reverse order of service. I think if there are going to be multiple courses, each served with its own wine, then no more than 5 glasses can comfortably be set at each place. The first glass to be filled is farthest to the right.
W: Correct.
J: In the normal course of a meal, soup is sometimes accompanied by sherry, nowadays more often offered from a small carafe by the server to pour directly into the soup.
W: Ah, now, you see, over here, serving Sherry is scarce and rather archaic, except as you indicate.
J: Over there you have been known to drink champagne straight through the meal, if not the entire afternoon, therefore really only requiring one glass!
W: Ha! Yes.
J: Next would likely be a white wine to accompany a salad or fish course.
W: Let’s say you are having a dinner party…your guests are having pre-dinner drinks in a reception room somewhere. Dinner is announced. Is it correct for the guests to carry their cocktails through to the dining table? Over here, drinks should never be carried through.
J: Over here, (we did after all we did popularize cocktails and introduced them to you blokes during the Second World War I believe) we do carry our drinks to the table except when we are at a state dinner or some other extremely formal occasion.
W: Yes, you did. There is a great line in the play ‘Crown Matrimonial’, where Queen Mary turns her nose up at her son’s new penchant for cocktails, following his trip to America.
J: I quite agree with the British etiquette and do not agree with bringing drinks to the table. Unfortunately some people bear the thought of being ‘dry’ for any length of time, and rely on this alcoholic crutch.
W: I know. And it would be ill mannered to tell them off as host (or guest).
J: Absolutely, cardinal rule, never embarrass, even when they insist on drinking from the finger bowl.
W: Have you heard the story about Prince Philip (and the finger bowl)?
J: No, do tell.
W: At a royal banquet over here, one guest who was seated next to the Prince picked up their finger bowl and drank from it. So as not to embarrass the guest, the Prince did the same.
J: Prince Philip expressed great kindness in his action, having had two special ladies to set an example for him. I haven’t been in such a circumstance but I think it might be rather fun.
W: We digress; let’s get back to stemware placement.
J: During the fish course, white wine is customarily served, a nice Sauvignon Blanc for example. I know today there are wine glasses blown for every conceivable varietal, which I think is a combination of wine snobbery and clever marketing.
W: Indeed. Also, the Victorians loved creating new implements for all sorts of different courses and things: i.e., fish knives.
J: Yes, the Victorians were quite amazing that way; however the whole wine glass thing is rather a new phenomenon.
W: If you look on Wikipedia, they give you a whole visual chart (click ’show’ next to Drinkware) of different stemware – useful for a novice
J: I think a utilitarian white wine glass works just fine for all white wines, save a dessert wine.
W: Exactly! There is no need to confuse people.
J: The main course is often a meat course and is accompanied with a red wine. The red wine glass is set therefore to the left of the white wine glass.
W: Unless white meat is served
J: If a white meat such as poultry or pork is served, a different white wine is often chosen. If salad follows the entree, yet a third wine might be offered. With each change of wine, a new glass must be used.
J: Dessert is customarily accompanied by Champagne, served in a flute, which is placed as the innermost of the stemware.
W: Yes or a pudding wine. Although over here some people think pudding wines are naff (pretentious).
J: And what would such a pudding wine be – sweet, port? Port is delicious with cheese
W: Now you’ve stumped me on that one, but yes they are generally sweet wines – closer to sherry or port but not sherry or port, if that makes sense
J: Yes, there are some wonderful sweet wines.
W: As we’ve mentioned Port, how about a quick mention on its etiquette?
J: That usually depends on the assembled group; after dinner with cigars, the Port bottle is never put down on the table until emptied. As I understand it, on board a ship, a Port decanter has a rounded base so resting it on a table would be impractical.
W: Yes, and always passed to the left.
J: Yes. It has very high alcohol content for a wine and so it’s best not to serve it all night.
W: If someone is hogging the port bottle, the correct euphemism to get him to pass it on is: “Do you know the Bishop of Norwich?”
J: Ah, that’s news to me.
W: If the person being queried does not know the ritual, the person will remark “He’s an awfully nice fellow, but he never remembers to pass the port.”
Before we move on to how to hold different glasses, how about mentioning the water glass?
J: Of course, the largest glass on the table usually placed directly above the dinner knife.
W: How do we correctly hold different glasses? I would say that for white wines, it is held by the stem, to avoid heating the chilled wine. For red wine, you may hold the bowl of the glass.
J: Generally speaking wine glasses should be held by the stem near the bowl. Grasping the bowl, although done by many, white or red regardless, is incorrect. You could rest the red wine glass in your hand, but only the most bottom part of the bowl touching. I think brandy snifters would be an exception. And brandy and port vessels are usually brought out when served, not set in advance
W: Now, I think we should mention the rule/tip when setting stemware on the dinner table (when setting). Never touch the rims – always place by the stem – this is hygienic and avoids leaving fingerprints in the glassware
J: I made sure each glass was hand polished before set on the table, and do so at home as well, where I am the wait staff
Symmetry is also important when arranging glasses. Each setting should be identical.
W: Placing each piece of glassware, china and silverware carefully and symmetrically reflects the care which you have taken to present a beautiful table.
J: I think that covers the subject of stemware. Let’s discuss table decorations next time.
W: Good idea!
Filed under: Etiquette Across the Pond | Tags: britain, canada, customs, cutlery, Etiquette Across the Pond, fork, knife, spoons, table settings, tables, uk, usa
Here is the second of our conversations, contrasting table setting customs from both sides of the Atlantic.
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J: Let’s discuss table settings, specifically holiday formal table settings. I think it wise to limit this discussion to cutlery. We can discuss other topics, such as stemware, decorations and place cards at another time.
W: I think we should start with the very basics: how would we set a place setting for a three-course meal?
J: One rule I always use is that there should never be any silverware that is placed simply for decorative or ‘balance’ purposes, such as a tablespoon, which will not be used.
W: Yes. It confuses people, and that is not the point of good manners (which is meant to put people at ease).
J: For a three-course meal (soup, main, dessert) we would want a soup spoon, a dinner fork, dinner knife, dessert spoon and fork and butter spreader.
W: Now, one point I noted is the use of the word ‘dessert’. Can I have an historical tangent here?
J: Yes, do.
W: Well, calling a pudding ‘dessert’ is technically/historically wrong – don’t worry, no one knows this over here, either! A ‘dessert’ course was a fruit course that was eaten after the table had been cleared (deserted) and after the pudding. It was to cleanse the palate – similar to how we sometimes eat sorbet to after the first course nowadays. Therefore, the only dessert now is a piece of fruit, and not a hot pudding, which should be thus called ‘pudding’. (Oh – the Victorians got rid of the dessert course and thus the term was made redundant and now it’s merged with pudding.)
J: What do you eat the pudding course with?
W: A pudding fork/spoon (or, some call it, a ’small fork/spoon’).
J: And where are these small forks and spoons placed on the table, or are they brought out with the food?
W: In a house, they would be set with the other cutlery from the beginning (never above the setting – to the sides). But in a hotel, they would be brought to you after the main course.
J: We have no such course here, unless it’s bread pudding, which would be dessert.
W: I realize that. I was just highlighting the cultural differences – although most call it dessert over here now. (I just like my history!)
J: I like the history too! And so you never place dessert utensils above the place setting under any circumstances?
W: Well, it depends who you talk to on that one – I would advise not doing it as it originates from children’s nurseries, and is called ‘nursery setting’. But there is an increasing amount of restaurants etc. that set the American way, which isn’t strictly wrong, but is just different.
J: I have seen that done for continental style dining as well. Now, mind you, we can have a cheese course after the dessert course accompanied with fresh fruit such as grapes, apples and pears – no citrus.
W: Yes, we too have a cheese course, and that follows pudding and is called such: ‘cheese course’.
J: Sometimes we skirt the cheese course by having ample blue cheese in the salad. In a three-course meal, we might well have a salad course in lieu of a soup course.
W: Where would you place the butter/break knife? This is an interesting one, too.
J: That knife always goes on the butter plate.
W: Whereas over here (traditionally) it went to the very left of the cutlery on the right (knives/spoons) – nearest the plate. But it seems to have travelled to the bread plate now. We can rest the bread/butter knife on the bread plate once we pick it up but it should (over here) start on the side with the other cutlery.
J: What about the cocktail fork?
W: Cocktail fork?!!! What on earth is that? That sounds very Victorian!
J: That’s what you perhaps refer to as an oyster fork.
W: Oh, I see. Well, I admit defeat on this one. Enlighten me.
J: It’s a small three pronged fork used to eat oysters and shrimp cocktail
W: Yes, I know what it looks like. I meant where does it sit?
J: It is either brought out on the underplate of the course or placed in the bowl the outermost spoon (likely a soup spoon)
W: Aha – makes sense. I think that is where I would have put it if I were guessing!
J: Forks should generally have accompanying knives; i.e. a salad fork should have a corresponding knife.
W: Yes, although in olden days over here (and in France still now) it is a crime to cut your salad).
J: Salad should be served in such a way that it does not require cutting. However, I like the knife for ease of arranging the salad on the fork; two hands always work better than one. It goes without saying (for you and me) that the cutlery is laid according to the order of the courses served.
W: Precisely.
J: But there is a limit – no more than three forks or knives (not including the butter knife). What about the different sizes of soup spoons – oval vs. round?
W: I think a lot of it is personal choice; although I would use an oval one always (if I was setting a table and had the option)
J: I was taught that the round bowls were for bouillon and oval for cream soup but there seems to be a difference of opinion in some circles.
W: Yes, it seems to be one of those grey areas.
J: We also have those oversized tablespoons. When I was young we used them for soup. I could barely get the thing into my mouth. I don’t use them at all anymore except for cooking (yes) and as serving spoons.
W: I do the same thing.
J: Will, I think we’ve covered that subject pretty thoroughly. I look forward to continuing our discussions and pursuing more elements of the formal dinner table.
W: Yes, indeed, Jay. It’s always fun to see how many things we do the same way and yet how many things we do differently, but all in the name of good manners and civility.
J: I look forward to discussing stemware next time, William. That should round things out nicely.
Filed under: Daily Life, Etiquette Across the Pond, Foreign culture | Tags: america, canada, conversation, eye-contact, handshakes, introductions, manners, parties, transatlantic, usa
My website has relaunched today, and as part of that, I proudly present the first of a series of blog entries comparing aspects of modern etiquette here in Britain to Canadian and American customs. For these blogs, Canadian protocol and etiquette consultant John H. Remer and I have teamed up and together we’ve been having conversations about different topics. The first one is all about introductions. We hope you enjoy it. Feedback always welcome.
Click for more information on William and John.
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J: Good afternoon, William.
W: Hello, Jay! What is our chosen topic for today?
J: I think we ought to begin with making introductions. I teach people to introduce the junior to the senior and men to women.
W: Yes, the person of the subordinate position (including age) is introduced to the more senior.
J: Always being sure to name the senior or woman’s name first.
W: Yes, it’s the same over here. Thus it would be: “Sir Henry, may I introduce Mr. Stephens?”
J: Yes, and we must avoid the term ‘you to’ and remember it is always ‘to you’, correctly saying: “Sir Henry, may I introduce Mr. Stephens to you.”
W: Exactly. Now, what would you say once you had been introduced to someone?
J: “How do you do, William, nice to meet you”, – extending my hand to yours (which is hopefully extended) I find that repeating a person’s name several times in the first minutes of conversation ensures that I remember the name.
W: Yes, the repeating of 3 times helps and also ensures the other person feels welcome. However, may I point out that in formal British etiquette the response: ‘Pleased to meet you’ is a big no-no? It’s ‘how do you do’ and then your name. Some people over here find ‘How do you do’ a bit pompous – so I advise that they just stick to a simple ‘Hello’.
J: Eye contact and a firm handshake are also very important. No hand crushing or limp fish shakes or pumping from the shoulders.
W: Exactly. Also, don’t do a power handshake using your left hand to grip the other person’s hand. One hand is enough. And two pumps are correct. Anything else feels uncomfortable and awkward. Prolonging the handshake can also be an indication that you did NOT pay attention to the person’s name and have most likely forgotten it.
J: I agree and make sure your hand is straight up and down with your thumb pointed up and your fingers pointed forward to ensure perfect web to web contact. Do not shake with your palm facing down or with two hands; as that indicates dominance. The two-hand shake is usually reserved for the clergy who are trying to comfort someone.
W: Now we’ve done introductions. Shall we do ‘goodbyes’?
J: Yes, good idea William. For exiting a conversation, I think it’s wise to repeat the person’s name. A remark such as “I look forward to meeting you again, William” would be okay.
W: Yes. You can say ‘it was lovely to meet you’ (or variations on ‘pleased to meet you’) at the end. And I would never suggest using a person’s first name without them saying you can.
J: I agree completely. And how do like to handle business cards? I think it best to be asked for a business card from the senior executive.
W: If it’s a social gathering then a business card is probably not appropriate unless business has come up in conversation.
J: Correct. Business and social events are separate occasions.
W: Indeed. A lot of people mix the two up. However, “Here’s my business card” or “May I give you my card” after a brief conversation at a business function it is perfectly acceptable.
J: What about at a conference and you are working the room? I don’t think passing business cards out like confetti is very good.
W: No, but passing out business cards IS a function of being at a conference. It is absolutely reasonable and a way of networking. After discovering an individual with whom you want to do business, offer them your card.
J: I think of a business card as an extension of ones’ self.
W: Yes. I agree.
J: These introductions are the foundations upon which business relationships are formed. They should be very carefully planned in one’s mind and executed graciously.
W: Yes. Making a good impression first-off is vital, especially in business. People judge others, rightly or wrongly, within the first 5 seconds of meeting them.
J: We must also remember good posture. I like to remember Professor P.M. Forni’s great quote: “People like doing business with people they like”. Eye contact is critical and your eyes must remain above the neckline. Otherwise, delivery of the intended message can become too informal.
W: Speak clearly. If someone has to strain their ears to hear what the other is saying, that is bad manners on the speaker’s part.
J: I notice that many people tend to speak way too fast.
W: Especially when nervous. Try to take a deep breath before encountering someone, compose yourself. Remember that what you have to say IS important and worth hearing.
J: Smiling is an important component of showing confidence. The limited use of hands and arm gestures might emphasize a point and let the other person you are genuinely engaged in the conversation. By restraining your hands and or arms you keep from hitting the other person accidentally, we were taught to express ourselves with our mouths not our hands-it was always considered bad form.
W: Yes. One should also pay attention to what the other person is saying (even if it’s terribly dull) as they will no doubt ask a question to you once they have finished and you’ll look silly if you had switched off.
J: Escaping dull conversations is and of itself an art. It is important when working a room to be able to go from one small group of people to another without being disrespectful.
W: Yes. The ?do excuse me, I’ve just spotted someone I need to catch before they leave? is a good one if done well.
J: Once you have visited with everyone you wanted or perhaps did not necessarily care to engage you can politely excuse yourself. You have accomplished your introduction and good bye mission and hopefully made some nice new contacts for your business and or social future.
J: Well, I think we’ve covered some good ground today, William.
W: Yes, we have. Let’s talk again soon. Perhaps we could discuss the differences in table manners.
J: Good idea. Let’s speak soon.
